Look out! A wild Wheel of Time Reread Redux appears! Today’s Redux post will cover Chapters 39 and 40 of The Eye of the World, originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time Reread is also available as an e-book series! Yay!
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Chapter 39: Weaving of the Web
Redux Commentary
I once tried to get to Rockefeller Center to see the Christmas tree lighting ceremony in New York (“tried” being the operative word there). Reading about Rand’s crowd adventures here brought back sharp memories of that abortive-and-never-to-be-repeated experience—right down to the “getting harassed by an extremely stinky homeless guy” part, in fact. Ah, memories.
As the wagon rolled through the Palace gates, he turned to look back at the assembled masses. They howled at him, beyond words, a wave of sheer animal hate and fear, and Logain threw back his head and laughed as the Palace swallowed him.
I kind of love this detail, because it’s not until, what, four or five books later that we find out Logain was actually laughing, not at the crowd, but at Rand specifically. Which means Jordan already knew at this very early point that Logain had a Talent for seeing ta’veren, even though at the point he wrote this he probably didn’t even know if that detail would ever make it into the text. It’s a writer thing, why I find that fun to realize.
Herbalists and hedge-doctors were lying low in Caemlyn right now; there was talk against anyone who did any kind of healing, or fortunetelling. Every night the Dragon’s Fang was scrawled on doors with a free hand, sometimes even in the daylight, and people might forget who had cured their fevers and poulticed their toothaches when the cry of Darkfriend went up. That was the temper in the city.
See, I don’t get this, not in Caemlyn. I know that traditionally, witch hunts in the real world focused on wise women and herbalists and such, but that’s because dumb people thought they were doing magic, and were therefore aligned with the devil, and blah blah blah deadlysuperstitionscakes. But in Randland, magic is real, and with the exception of Nynaeve, Aes Sedai aren’t going to bother with herbs and poultices if they want to Heal you, so this connection seems nonsensical, in context.
Though it would have made slightly more sense had it been specified that the healers being targeted were all men. The connection is still a stretch, but at least it’s universally acknowledged that even the possibility of a man channeling is a super bad thing.
“Even so, he could take the Queen’s Bounty at the Palace, even with things as hard as they are. On High Days, the Queen gives it out with her own hands, and there’s never anyone turned away for any reason. No one needs to beg in Caemlyn. Even a man under warrant can’t be arrested while he’s taking the Queen’s Bounty.”
Oh Em Gee, that’s *gasp* socialism. The Horrah!
(Okay, probably that’s still feudalism, with a dusting of noblesse oblige and also common decency, you go Morgase, but I recently had a “debate” with someone over the eeevils of socialist tendencies in our government, made hilarious by the fact that my opponent is currently collecting Social Security benefits, so the subject’s still somewhat in the forefront of my mind.)
And… yeah, look, I just want to get to the next chapter, because it is my favorite, so whatever, moving on.
(squee)
Chapter 40: The Web Tightens
Redux Commentary
I said in the original commentary that this chapter was one of my favorites of the entire series to that date. And now, coming back to it after having read the completed series, at long last?
Well. The statement still stands. It still stands emphatically. (She italicizes, adverbially.)
Love love love love love this scene, still and always. It will likely forever stand out as one of my most fondly remembered reading experiences of all time.
Now, it’s possible that part of this is just misty-eyed nostalgia for days of reading gone by (I still say the only positive benefit of being able to selectively erase memories would be to get to read a beloved book for the first time again), but I also think it’s just because this is a damn good chapter that also happened to hit just about every last one of my narrative and literary kinks. Mm, yummy.
I discussed most of those in the original commentary, but one that I think in retrospect I left out is the absolutely delicious tropetasticness of Rand’s entire interaction with the Trakands and the royal court as a whole. Because, look, you’re not going to last long reading epic fantasy without having at least a little bit of a fascination with the goings-on of royalty/nobility/generally feudal figures, and also a fondness for meet-cute shenanigans involving said feudal figures and the gifted and/or destiny-laden peasants who will eventually become and/or marry them. It’s pretty much a law, y’all.
And it’s a law I personally have no issue with whatsoever. Give me ALL the royalty tropes, please and thank you. Even better if they are SPACE ROYALTY or MAGIC ROYALTY, because come on, why have boring real royalty if you can go one better?
(And before you ask, no, I have not yet managed to see Jupiter Ascending, but the Internets have told me alllll about it, and I am gleefully looking forward to doing so as soon as I can get (a) my sisters and (b) a lot of alcohol lined up for maximal enjoyment of what I can just tell will be a Truly Magical Movie Experience™. I’m already giggling in anticipation.)
And, you know, it’s also because royal people by their very nature operate on a larger scale than non-royal persons—it’s literally in the job description—and thus using our first introduction to Actual Royal People in TEOTW to also shift the focus of the story to the far more global palette on which it will stay for the rest of the series is only apropos. And awesome.
(Okay, technically we’ve already met two Actual Royal Persons in TEOTW, but Moiraine’s affiliations aren’t revealed until later, and Lan’s diadem (LOL) is too firmly on the shelf at this point for him to really count either. In my arrogant opinion, of course.)
In other news, I have to laugh at Elaida for knitting in the throne room, because OF COURSE frickin’ Elaida is knitting in the throne room. Because heaven forfend she wouldn’t take every last opportunity to remind Morgase and everyone else that she is Too Cool For School and no one is the boss of her and neener neener I do what I want, and if that means doing things that are ridiculously inappropriate in context then TOO BAD.
*snort*
Also, Elaida’s motives for concealing the part of her Foretelling that concerned Rand were not exactly pure, but given the rest of that conversation she probably saved his life. I bet she kicked herself for that later on.
Or maybe not; Rand’s life might never have been in any real danger. Morgase et al at this juncture are very much presented as an idealized royal court, where both the Queen and her children, in their own ways, hold to their honor and duty to their subjects above all other things, and make the kind of choices we’d all love to believe any true leader would make (and which they hardly ever do). And it might be easy to be scornful of that, except that I think it makes the contrast all the more affecting later when Andor (and the Trakands) come apart at the seams.
The Arthurian bent of their names was no accident, after all. Caemlyn is Randland’s Camelot, beautiful and pure and noble before its destruction, and like Camelot’s ruler, eventually it will be for love betrayed that Morgase and her kingdom will fall. And you can’t have a fall without a sufficiently lofty height to start from.
*is sad*
And then:
“You say I am fond of giving orders. Well, I command you to let nothing happen to you. I command you to be my First Prince of the Sword when I take the throne—the Light send that day is far off!—and to lead the armies of Andor with the sort of honor Galad cannot dream of.”
“As you command, my Lady.” Gawyn laughed, his bow a parody of Galad’s.
Yeah. Or, you know, as it turns out, not.
Obligatory Gawyn headdesk: *headdesk*
That said, even Gawyn cannot diminish my squee over this chapter. Plus he said the Aielman thing, which deeply delighted me at the time, so I will magnanimously allow his existence. FOR NOW.
But hillarible news! I had intended to officially bestow my standard Sparkly Yay on this chapter, since I hadn’t invented it yet the first time around, but the URL I was using to generate the sparkly appears to be broken. Ergo, I am forced to use the absurdly outsized version my sister made for me for my fabulous JordanCon Powerpoint presentation that one year instead, but hey, maybe that’s even better.
Therefore, have a HUGE SPARKLY YAY, Chapter 40! I love you!
And that’s what THAT is, kids. Happy Tuesday in March, a thing I bet almost no one has said ever, and I’ll see you next week!
Some Finale!
Gawyn just might be the one character who falls the most: from attractive young prince whose sister is (one of) Rand’s love interests and who initially seems sympathetic and supportive of Rand’s innocence . . . to someone who becomes totally immersed in hatred of Rand based on nothing more than a RUMOR, and who maintains that hatred even after he is repeatedly told by those whom he should trust that the rumor is WRONG!
And then proceeds to make further bad decisions after that. He ends a pitiful figure. I really can’t hate him or even dislike him: I just feel sorry for him and wonder about the flaw that makes him destroy himself.
Leigh, I think it’s said somewhere in the boring Elayne chapters of books 8-11 that there are no men herbalists. A woman herbalists makes fun of that possibility. Basically it’s a profession closed to males, like medicine was to women in the western world during a good portion of the 19th century. So I don’t think the people being attacked were male herbalists, since they don’t exist in Randland.
Regarding the Queen’s Bounty, it looks to me like almsgiving. In Randland there’s no organized church. The White Tower and the Children of the Light have some aspects of organized religion in our world to them, but there’s still no organized cult of the divine/Creator. In medieval times, both in the Christian and the Muslim world, almsgiving was something organized by the religious institutions (which kind of mixed up with the state in the Muslim world). In Ancient Rome, this minimum income program existed as well, at least during the better years of Imperial rule. It was the “bread” part of “bread and circuses”. Most of the free Roman citizens were out of work during late Republic and early Empire, so they sustained themselves with this charity done by the state (or by powerful patrician families before that). So in Randland there’s also a “free bread program”, but done by the Queen and working only in Caemlyn.
Why the Gawain hate? Egwene’s the idiot who married and bonded him, making his personal stupidity “Earth shattering”…
@2 – actually, in TSR (I think, maybe FOH), when Elayne and Nynaeve are talking about herb women (the machura woman who gives them forkroot), Thom says in Altara (again, I think) that because of the Children’s influence, not many women deal in herbs. Nynaeve is dismissive of men as “hedge doctors”, as “what would they know of healing” or some such…
I immediately warmed to Elayne when Gawyn spoke of her penchant for taking care of injured animals. Too bad the story gave her no chance to continue doing so.
I response to your criticism of the ‘Witch Hunt’, I think it goes hand in hand with the aura of mystery that the Aes Sedai cultivate around themselves, combined with the ignorance of the common populance. Even the Whiteclocks themselves believe some of the superstitions, as witnessed by some of Galad’s companions in the Last Battle instisting they take the bodies of enemy channalers to crossroads and dismember them, or some such. So I would not expect the Whitecloaks to be logical about it. The more intelligent among than may realize that this is not the case but they see it as a tool to manipulate the hearts and minds of the people and give them leverage, so they’re on board. Besides, an Aes Sedai who was incognito, and we know they often travel that way for their own purposes, would find being a herbalist a good cover for her activities.
I personally find your lack of support for the Children to be disturbing Leigh, expect questioners to arrive at your home shortly to bring you into the Light! ;)
The introduction to Elayne and the Trankards is a great chapter, I agreee. And Gawain is actually a great character for the first three or four books or so. It is only with the foreknowledge of the rest of the series that *headdesks* ensue, so save your forehead some pain and wait for the rest of the story. I actually thought he was ment to be the more down to earth counterbalance to Galad’s more strick whitecloak way of seeing the world, and he was initially, but then veered off the rails.
Ah, I should go back and re-read this, but seeing Gawyn in non head-desky mode might be too sad ;)
Leigh, I hope the homeless guy you mentioned above was not tainted by Shadar Logoth.
While Aes Seadi do not use herbs and poultices to heal, other channelers do. Remember at the end of LoC. Elayne sees the one of the Kin (although she did not know the woman was a member of the Kin) use herbs as a pretext for channeling. Granted she used it to camouflage her channeling. But les not quibble.
If Eladia did not conceal that portion of her Foretelling, WoT would have been a very short series :) (Obviously, the Pattern (read RJ) would have had something happen so as not to have Rand be put in jail or Rand would have been released/escape very quickly.)
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
Yay, one of my favourite chapters, too! :)
And it’s not just the fact we meet so many new characters, nor the arthurian names, not even the beautiful garden. It just feels different than the rest od the books; it has strange flavor that reminds me of Chronicles of Narnia. So I always thought that Elayne, Gawyn and Galad were a bit like Lucy, Edmund and Peter – and thus was not surprised at all when Gawyn turned out to be headdesky later on.
I like Gawyn in this chapter: the way he starts chatting with Rand almost as with someone equal, while for Elayne Rand may just be another stray wounded animal. I still remember hoping that Gawyn would turn out to be more like “Sir Gawain and the Green knight” kind of character – a bit headdesky in the middle, but awesome in the end. Ah well.
Elayne in that beautiful dress climbing trees – I still find that hillarious.
If you stop and think about it, the whole “you are taking money from the State (money, mind you, that is ostensibly a repayment of the money you previously paid in) therefore you are not allowed to criticize the State” argument really does NOT advance your cause. (What’s described in the book is also not socialism.)
“Which means Jordan already knew at this very early point that Logain had a Talent for seeing ta’veren, even though at the point he wrote this he probably didn’t even know if that detail would ever make it into the text.” Maybe. Jordan certainly had an impressive long-term vision for his series. But he was also exceptional at using early events to tie into stuff in later books, where a lesser writer would be retconning early book stuff away.
YAY! Sparkly Yays and Gawyn headdesks and magnanimously allowing his existence anyway for the win! I (randomly) picked a perfect week to be able to tune back in to the reread redux, I see! Yay, great commentary Leigh.
It’s hilarious how worried I was – I followed your link to the original comentary, was reminded how much you loved this scene, and was afraid that you would not still love it now. I’m not sure why it matters to me that you still do love it…maybe it’s because the WOT ended, but with your love of this chapter, I’m reminded that there are no endings, and we all are still united by our love for WOT. YAY, indeed.
I did not analyze this chapter or my reactions to it in any depth, first time through (since I read the first six books in about 10 days in the midst of finals, there was little ANALYSIS going on, only frantic inhaling of MOAR), but it did make quite a strong impression on me. Ironically, it wasn’t so much Elayne, or even the Mystery of Rand, that got my attention. It was Gawyn and Morgase.
It’s ironic because I say so. And because of how annoying their storylines became.
But Morgase, dealing with a city in near-riot, filled with Whitecloak plotters, and faced with an intruder bearing a heron-mark blade and a ridiculous story…with advice from a Great Captain and an Aes Sedai…Morgase chooses to be governed by her laws and not by fear or even pragmatism. She does the Right Thing. And it is awesome.
I felt like I did watching Harrison Ford be president in Air Force one, risking himself to save regular citizens. The epitome of what you want (and do not expect) in your leaders.
No Elayne bashing here – I’m not an Elayne-hater – but in all her desire to be a bold and daring queen, I wonder if she yet understands Morgase’s example here. Morgase is taking a risky path, not to be bold or daring…but to do right. To follow the law. That is seriously cool.
And then there’s Gawyn. Gawyn who I *really like* here – and who I therefore tried to defend through the rest of the series. *sigh* He didn’t ever really come back from the depths to which he sank, unfortunately. (Though even so he still makes my list of Characters Who Saved the World…maybe even twice. So in the end, I’m glad Leigh will allow his existence, even if it’s only for now.)
*sigh* Gawyn. *tiny headdesk*
Elaida’s behaviour here has always puzzled me. How much of her Foretelling is she concealing here, and why?
Re: herbalists and fortunetellers lying low – yes, magic is real in Randland, but wilders apparently often manifest it in healing and fortunetelling. Certainly enough for the Whitecloaks to use.
I always forget just how precarious Morgase’s rule is at this point, and that Pedron Niall-the-Great-Captain is working on deep plans to unseat her. It’ll be interesting to watch it play out this time – it’s entirely possible that Rahvin and/or the Seanchan are to be thanked for preventing Andor from being dominated by the Whitecloaks.
@2 Ryamano – interesting notes about almsgiving, but I’ll just note that in Europe religion and state were quite as thoroughly intertwined as in the Muslim world…as has generally been the case in just about every time and place I know of. Our western notion of separation-of-church-and-state is quite a recent and localized innovation in the broad sweep of human history. (One I thoroughly appreciate and support, I hasten to add.)
It is weird that Elaida conceals that part of her Foretelling. It’s also weird how she seems to call it up on demand, here…not something we see from her (or Nicola) later in the series, though Tuon seems to think that her damane can do it at will. Hmm.
@15 Since Foretelling is tied to the Pattern and Rand is utmost ta’veren, I’m guessing it might not be as much on her demand as it is at the world’s demand.
@14, yes. Civil government was quite small at the time, but it’s incredible and broadly and deeply into people’s lives the Church sought to reach.
Hi Leigh and fellow WOT Re-readers,
Im a long time reader, first time poster. I really enjoy the blog and all the funny and insightful discussions that go on here. Im really glad you decided to do the Redux, Leigh, as it gives me a chance to comment on a series that helped define my teenage years and continuing love of fantasy. I sadly missed the chance to comment on one of my absolute favorite chapters of all – the Prologue (poor LTT and Ilyena) – as I was travelling in Asia at the time but your posts were diligently read around Japan and Indonesia!
Still, starting with Logan’s gloriously distainful laugh in the cage is good place to begin. He really intrigued me here and I still have a soft spot for him, although I dont think AMOL really did him and Min’s viewing justice after all the build up. I also remember being really disappointed by Rand’s and his eventual meeting in COT too. It seemed quite skimmed over, and I thought Rand might think back to this point and how far the two men have come, especially since its Rand in the metaphorical cage at that point, tied into his awful destined role and responsibilites. There are many things I adore about the series and Im thankful to Brandon Sanderson for finishing it well but I do wish that certain early characters like Logain got more input like they did in the early books. More insight into the runnings of the Black Tower as you have said before, would have been so welcome.
I liked the next chapter too, although your comment about Gawyn just makes me feel sad. He seemed like such a great guy in EOTW. Jordan’s portrayal is sadly realistic of how petty emotions can twist a good nature but he really lets himself go from the promise he shows here.
Also I suppose here is where Elayne fell for Rand since she questions Nynaeve and Egwene in GH about him and doesn’t see him again til DR (am I right?) All seems abit rushed to me but that Pattern Matchmaking TM for you.
Looking forward to the next one as always.
I just realised what I should have realised ages ago: that Galad is set up as the one who’s going to make everything go wrong and hurt us, and Gawyn is set up as the nice supporting friend/romantic interest who’ll come up from behind to do something special, but it gets completely switched. I mean, obviously I knew those things, but only now have I had the moment of clarity and realised it was probably the point.
Having read the books in one go in isolation from the internet, I knew nothing of wider thoughts on WoT, but spent each Gawyn scene bemoaning to myself why Gawyn WHY with ever increasing intensity, so was much amused and relieved to discover the reread and the headdesking!
I should probably reread it, but I really don’t get why Elaida let Rand go here.
And I’ve got to say it but I’m not a massive fan of this chapter – I’m not very fond of royalty tropes. When he fell into the garden, I thought, eugh, a princess. Now they’ll fall in love and etc.
Doesn’t one of Elayne’s midwives later on note how much of an interest her own son was taking in the craft?
And Elaida. Early foreshadowing just how unpleasant she’s gonna be. And so arrogant. Utterly dismissive of anybody’s power but hers. IIRC once Moiraine heard Elaida was around she didn’t waste time getting out of Dodge, fully knowing what Elaida would do.
And Gawyn. He’s such a nice boy here. It’s hard to reconcile the easy going boy here with the ass we get saddled with at the end. Elaida was predictable. But this boy?… le sigh.
I just remember Morgase’s description here which is a distinctly Andoran fashion that is never repleated anywhere – she is wearing a gown of red and white pleats. Not a pleated underskirts/petticoats or red slashed with white (or white slashed with red) but pleated like a cheerleader’s skirt, I guess.
I searched decades for an artistic representation of it, but to no avail.
Also, if memory serves, wasn’t theere something about Elaida wearing green here, tossed in with references to her forcing the palace gardens to bloom, which led me, a long, long time ago to posit that the Green Ajah had something to do with agriculture and botany or something.
Elaida isn’t expressly listed as a Red yet, right?
Ages pass and memories fade and I read this book hidden behind my trapper keeper in my freshman year English lit class ;) So forgive if my details are a tad hazy.
With regard to the “witchhunts”, Caemlyn is in the midst of a wave of paranoia about the Aes Sedai having too much influence over the Royal household. While people know Aes Sedai exist, they are rather scarce, so very few people have much direct experience with One Power weilders. So there are probably a lot of conspiracy theories running aroind out there. The White faction are basically a bunch of Truthers who are suggesting ignorant things like fire notbeing able to affect steel.
The problem is, they are not entirely wrong with the shape of it. Elayne going to train to be Aes Sedai gives her dual loyalties to that organization and the realm.
Remember that the aes sedai are an exclusive organisation, most women who go to the tower don’t become aes sedai and as we learn with the reveal of the kin many become healers. The witch hunts aren’t too far off -just in the wrong city.
Chapter 40 is easily my favourite in EOTW. Not only my favourite character appears here for the first time, but it’s just so good and memorable. The classic meet-cute at the beginning which really works here (too bad this relationship was ruined by the idiotic harem idea of Jordan), Elayne bossing people, Galad being his usual spoilsport self, meeting Elaida, Morgase and Bryne for the first time…
Gawyn’s claim that Rand looks just like an Aiel is kind of baffling since he also looks just like many Andoran high nobles (including Gawyn himself).
It cracks me up how everyone in WoT is so good at noticing and describing what people around them are wearing. Here there is a classic example when Rand meets Elayne and there is a half a page long description of the clothes she is wearing including the exact fabric used for every piece of clothing. How is a country boy from the back end of nowhere so good at instantly spotting velvet and silk and noticing embroidery patterns? It is a mystery…
Rand is so impressed by the clothes he didn’t even notice how beautiful Elayne herself was at first. This certainly doesn’t sound like any 18 year old boy I have met. ;)
Gaiazun/23 – its not so much the wrong city – don’t forget the Kin were headquartered in Ebou Dar, but they rotated women in and out to make sure that no one notices that the nice helpful Wise Woman doesn’t age. Whose to say that they didn’t have little chapters in the major cities like Caemlyn that the Kinswomen worked in during their rotation out? At least that was my impression.
“Vera, you have been in Ebou Dar for too long; people are starting to catch on that you don’t age. Go hang your shingle in Caemlyn for a deacde or two under alias and come back to us.”
LadyBelaine @21
Yep, Elaida is wearing a green dress when Rand meets her. Seems a bit odd in retrospect. There is no mention of her Ajah in this chapter. I thought her affiliation with the Reds was mentioned previously, but I can’t find the passage. Did Thom say something about it in passing?
I should probably reread it, but I really don’t get why Elaida let Rand go here.
Elaida didn’t want to let Rand go, Morgase did it against her wishes.
That Elaida doesn’t like rats shows that she is no darkfriend.
Why does knitting make Rand think Elaida is old? Can’t a young woman knit?
Why does Elayne have a medical kit in her pockets when she is in her own garden watching Logain? That doesn’t make sense.
@@@@@ 21, 26
Aes Sedai aren’t forced to wear only their Ajah colors in their dresses. They preferred to do so during the latter books (also wearing their shawls all the time) in the Tower because the climate in the Tower was so tense between the Ajahs. Under normal circunstances, Aes Sedai change dresses a lot, wearing any color they wish.
Bergmaniac @24
Might be the height. On top of being of fair colored.
Ways @26
No, if any would have been aware of Elaida’s Ajah it would have been Moiraine. In fact I’m pretty sure Moiraine wasted no time getting herself and the kids out of Dodge as soon as she heard of Rand’s encounter.
As much as Elaida would love to think so, she did not have any power to dictate to the queen. What she could do is send her agents out to recapture Rand once he was out of the Queen’s sight. Which is also what Moiraine anticipated.
Ryamano @28: Except, per New Spring, Blues could be given a penance for wearing red inside the Tower. I wouldn’t be surprised if the other Ajahs had similar rules/customs.
Elaida’s Ajah is not mentioned in TEotW; it’s not even listed in the Glossary! The first mention seems to be by implication in Ch.4 of TGH, when Siuan tells Moiraine that “it was the Red Ajah that found her (Elayne),” clearly referring to Elaida.
We do learn Elaida’s Ajah in this book. In chapter 42, Moiraine says “There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah,” clearly including Elaida, since this is after Master Gill assumes that she’ll stay at the palace with the other Aes Sedai. Rand doesn’t associate Elaida with the Red Ajah yet because he doesn’t know anything about them yet (a fact noted in his inner monologue right after the quote above).
One thing I noticed in this chapter that comes up again later when they discuss the Blight – whose Warders are there guarding Logain’s wagon? Had Jordan not yet decided that Red sisters would have no Warders (unlikely, since this is commented on in TGH), or is there some force of un-bonded Warders in Tar Valon? This question comes up again in Borderlands chapters when there are several mentions of Warders scouting in the Blight, but no mention of Aes Sedai being present.
AlreadymadwithElaida @29 – Gawyn is the same height as Rand.
@28…..they are not forced, but in later books RJ makes a point that Reds typically flaunt their ajah color. Young Reds are also punished for not wearing red. I think this is a case where RJ hadn’t fully formulated everything and made a minor continuity error
Bergmaniac @24 said: “Gawyn’s claim that Rand looks just like an Aiel is kind of baffling since he also looks just like many Andoran high nobles (including Gawyn himself).”
Not really. Remember that Rand is half Aiel (from his father, Janduin) and half Andorian (from his mother, Tigraine — who was the Daughter Heir, before she disappeared to the Waste).
I wonder how Gitara Moroso convinced Tigraine that disaster will befall the world unless Tigraine goes to the Waste, becomes a Maiden of the Spear and does not return until the Maidens go to Tar Valon. Tigraine is the Heir to the throne. She has already given birth to a son. If I was Tigraine, I am not sure I could be convinced that the fate of the world depended upon me giving up everything I knew and go to the Waste.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
Keep in mind the even if they are female healers their is a power struggle of some sorts going on right now between people supporting the queen and people supporting the children of the light who are anti chaneling no matter the gender. So the people scrawling the dragon fang on the herbalists doors might be people who wear white on their sword?
@26
Ah yes, but Reds in particular were known for wearing their Ajah color at every opportunity even before the Tower split business. Most likely a detail RJ didn’t have worked out yet (understandably, IMHO).
JT_Asha’Man @31: I considered that, and I admit it’s likely that Moiraine knew that Elaida was in Caemlyn at the time, but it’s not definitely true; the conversation with Rand about him meeting Elaida comes after the line you quoted.
Also, there was some sort of retcon/mistake in that line anyway, as the procession with Logain had “a dozen Warders”, and we know that the Reds had none. So TGH is the first definitive mention of Elaida’s Ajah.
When I first read this chapter, I was still living in small-town Iowa where I grew up. I hadn’t been to any big cities except on school field trips, and most recently when I’d gone to a few conventions. So I’d say I probably had no idea what it would be like to be in such a large crowded city like Rand was (although going to the conventions was close enough). And yet I don’t recall the scene bothering me that much, which is odd since at the time I was a lot more shy and introverted than I am now. I’m not sure if this was a sign that I was meant to live in cities and would one day do so without even being fazed by big crowds (although the Fourth of July celebration at Fisherman’s Wharf here in San Fran a few years ago was rather overwhelming and extremely difficult to make any headway through) or if I was just so caught up in the awesome and entrancing story that it didn’t really register for me what Rand was going through. But either way, I can certainly appreciate more now. Poor guy–and he’s got Aiel height! A little guy like me would have been even more crushed in that…
The bit about Logain laughing is nice because at this point, without us knowing anything about him or his POV, it comes across as just another way to paint (false) Dragons as villains, cackling evilly as they lord their insane superiority over the innocent they will slay and ruin as they break the world again. But later when we find out why he was laughing, it does make sense–seeing everybody all worked up over him, but knowing Rand was far more powerful and dangerous than he was and would cause far more ruin in the world than he ever could, is amusing in a gallows sort of way. Not that it makes him any less nutty to be thinking that way and acting like this. Which is interesting, since up until when he is almost Turned, this is the only time in the series we ever see Logain act like the taint is affecting him.
Was that process not only arrested, but somehow turned back somewhat, by his gentling and Healing, thus explaining why he was so much more calm and stable afterward? Or was he never really that mad, one of those with a strong enough will (as evidenced by his resisting the Turning) to stand against the taint, and the laughter really was just what it appeared, with perhaps a bit of Large Ham acting thrown in to fit the part and give the people what they expected of a false Dragon? I guess it’s the latter, but if so, Jordan certainly made good use of the moment to play into the fears of the taint and channeling men, something absolutely necessary in both this and the next book to explain both Rand’s fears and the attitudes of those around him.
Re: the attitude against channelers and healers and anyone who seems to do magic in Caemlyn: while it is true that in Randland magic is both real and more prevalent than it was in the Middle Ages, and there isn’t a central religion or institution condemning it and whipping people into a frenzy, I think once again we need to step back from our assumptions and biases about Caemlyn and Andor. We’re so used to the place seeming so good-hearted, noble, and understanding, a bastion of sanity and good sense compared to the rest of the world, that we make the mistake of forgetting that to a point, this is damning with faint praise. Because while it’s true places like Tear, Amadicia, and even Illian to various degrees reject, hate, or are at least suspicious toward Aes Sedai, places like Ebou Dar have no problem with healers and hedge women, while the Borderlands are extremely accepting of and reverent toward the Tower. Andor actually lies between these extremes (culturally and morally as well as physically).
So while in TEotW–when we have yet to visit any of the other nations and find out what they’re like–Andor seems accepting and open-minded, and our spending so much time with Morgase, Elayne, Gill, and other good and honorable Andorans colors our perceptions, the truth is Andor is not quite the safe haven it appears to be. Yes, the land has been tied to the Tower for many generations of queens, but that is something which many Andorans have actually resented. Considering people whispered about Gitara having told Luc that fame or destiny awaited him in the Blight, it seems likely at least some Andorans would have reason to suspect Aes Sedai involvement in everything that went wrong from the disappearance of Tigraine through the Aiel War. (Note also after it ended Grays went about the land trying to hold the coalition together, something which could make some people even more suspicious the whole thing had been some big plot orchestrated by the Tower.) To now have a false Dragon show up in the nation just to the southwest would be seen as one more sign that having traffic with the Power had brought misfortune upon Andor. And quite clearly the Whitecloaks are not only helping to fan the flames of hatred and prejudice, but the fact they still get converts shows there are people willing to listen to their malcontent and turn others against the Tower.
Finally, remember what Moiraine said to Egwene when she was worried about the Power, about how while it was the men who’d gone mad and broke the world, saidar was just as dangerous in its own way and could make female channelers a force to be feared even by themselves. Even in the Two Rivers, people were wary of the Power overall, not just male channelers (hence why Nynaeve is so adamant for so long that she can’t channel, and why she blocks herself once she does accept it). Wisdoms were accepted there because they were seen as natural, apart from the Power, and there was nothing to connect the two (except to insightful Wisdoms like the one who trained Nynaeve, and she knew better to keep her suspicions to herself), but here in Caemlyn, with so much having gone wrong for so long, all of it seeming to relate to the Power, and with the Whitecloaks stirring everyone up, it’d be a lot easier to connect anyone who seems to have unusual powers or abilities to the Tower and its machinations.
And since a lot of people blamed the Aes Sedai for the Breaking too (because they didn’t stop Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions from making the Strike at Shayol Ghul, or after they went mad; because some Dreadlords and Forsaken were women; or because the Power was what was used to destroy everything and they channeled it too–guilt by association), then anyone even superficially similar to them would be painted with the same brush. It’s too easy to blame those different and Other for our problems, then attack and cast them out as scapegoats to “fix” everything. And even Andorans are not immune to this.
Only a couple other things of note: we once more see the Law of Unintended Consequences–if Fain hadn’t tried to attack Rand and forced him to flee, he’d never have climbed the wall, fallen in the garden, met the Trakand family, or met Elaida and heard her Foretelling. This would have changed absolutely everything, from the relationships between Rand and the Trakands, to even those between the Trakands, Egwene, and Nynaeve (since they would have been less interested in them or willing to trust them if they hadn’t known Rand), to Elaida’s actions later on. Nice job fixing it, villain! Also, Rand follows up on the thoughts brought up last week, about the importance of him having chosen the red tassels instead of the white–aside from that also being a contributing factor to why he went where he did, why he ran, and how he ended up on the palace wall, he points out Gill probably wouldn’t have helped him and Mat without it. And that’s clearly extremely critical for a number of reasons. So the Pattern really knew what it was doing.
The brief dream Rand has of him with Logain and Moiraine I always found both amusing and oddly fascinating (since the two of them never actually meet that we know of, unless she did go back to Tar Valon before visiting Vandene and Adeleas and he was already there by then). I think it’s a nice bit of subtle foreshadowing of Rand’s future and his choices–White Tower or Black, his mentor and his successor, the one without whom he could not save the world and the one who would return glory to men after that salvation had occurred. It certainly shows Logain will be far more important to the story than we ever realized at the time, if not quite as important as Moiraine.
The Trakands: I will never forget their introduction here because Jordan did such a good job of making these royals into real people, and ones you could respect, admire, and like for the most part. None of the annoying traits about any of them (except to some degree Galad) are as in evidence here as they will be later, so we just get an unvarnished view of Elayne as a true princess who is noble, kind-hearted, strong-willed, has an amusing sense of humor, and a definite insight into people. Gawyn is so much more relaxed than he ever is later on (granted nothing truly terrible has happened yet), warm, wry, witty, and definitely seeming to strike up a brotherly rapport (ironic on more than one level) with Rand, especially as a form of solidarity against Elayne. And Galad? Well, while he’s the one who runs off to report on Rand and thus causes everything that happens next, he doesn’t really come off as a bad person or vindictive, just as usual following the rules and doing what he sees as right.
So much irony here though: Gawyn telling Elayne she should marry someone from the Two Rivers, and that painful speech where she makes him swear to let no harm come to himself and be her First Prince of the Sword… Sigh. Knife twist. Damn you, Jordan. Though before I get to Elaida and the throne room confronation I have to remark on the amusing thing which the encyclopedia notes, and which Leigh is also so pleased by: Elayne having a healing kit, one which after this is never seen or mentioned again.
I think that just as Rand’s feeling that Elayne reminded him of Moiraine and Nynaeve was meant as much as a subtle hint (before we find out she’s to be sent to the Tower) that Elayne can channel as that she is a person with rank and authority, the healing kit was meant to be a way to show how she wanted to take care of and help people, that she was a good sort of noble who would make a worthy queen one day. Which meant once this scene was past it had served its purpose–and anyway, after this any time we see Elayne, she’s surrounded by Aes Sedai (or Nynaeve) who can Heal and thus such a kit isn’t needed any more.
It’s also, I think, another subtle hint that she won’t be like most channeling women we meet–not only is she willing to get her hands dirty, interact with the common people, and help others, but the healing kit is meant to put us in mind of Nynaeve, who sticks to her herbs and healing ointments for as long as she can and even finds ways to bring them back in again when she is a Healer and full-fledged Yellow. In other words, this is another hint not only that she will get along well (most of the time) with Nynaeve, but that like her, she is one to think outside the box and not confine herself to the traditional way of doing things, something which will be very important for her both in the Tower and on the throne.
As for the vanishing scarf: whoops, Jordan can’t catch all of the details! Although forgetting it was there does make the scene at the Queen’s Blessing seem less believable–if Rand was still wearing it, why would Egwene refuse to believe he had met Elayne? Where else did she think he would get such a rich decoration?
Elaida is…an odd enigma here. I don’t think Jordan had planned a different Ajah than Red for her here, because her attitude toward men and Logain in particular fits that too well, especially calling him an unbeliever–something no other Aes Sedai does, and it makes sense that those Aes Sedai who focus all their time on hunting down male channelers, who see them using the Power even though they know what it will do to them and the world, would think this means they are rejecting the Creator and the Light. But that being the case, how strange that she would a) make the gardens bloom and b) wear green!
The first just seems out of character for her, I don’t recall her ever showing an interest in nature or beautiful things other than her clothing, although the ability to make the garden bloom might be something a lot of Aes Sedai can do and there may be more to her than we realized. But the second, well, we find out in the next book that the Green and Reds have been at odds for a long time–albeit not as much as, or with the same enmity as, the Red and Blues. And Elaida had always been one to wear her Ajah colors. So could it be Jordan really hadn’t worked out her Ajah yet (or that she strictly wore her Ajah colors)?
Or…could Elaida have been hiding her allegiance? Maybe because proclaiming she was a Red would remind people too much of what her Ajah does, thus making them think of male channelers and be less likely to obey or work with her. Or maybe she only started wearing red all the time after going back to the Tower, and especially after the Ajahs started colluding and forming factions. Or (a stretch) she was already, at this point, planning to ally with the Greens? Maybe because she was suspicious of Siuan and Moiraine’s activities, and so she wanted to erode their power base? This could explain why the Greens wanted to censure Moiraine in TGH (though Talene could have been behind that too…).
The knitting, though, that absolutely fits her. :P
As for the rest…well. Obviously Gareth comes across as reasonable, if stern and harsh. Morgase is a fair, just, and noble queen, as well as, again, rather human. Tallanvor was a bit of a dick, but considering what he thought he’d found in the gardens and Elayne’s attitude toward him, I can understand. (Too bad Elayne didn’t let him take Rand’s sword, but I suppose even if she had, he still would have shown it to Bryne and Elaida and the results would have been the same.) It’s also interesting to see the byplay between Elaida and Morgase, since this is the only time we see them together; it’s quite clear that as much as Morgase respects Elaida and her advice, she has more than enough willpower to stand up to her when needed, and I love how she calls Elaida on the mysteriousness of Aes Sedai speech. (Although I always found Elaida to be one of those who was the most direct in what she said. She may have had secret agendas and plans that would undermine the Tower, but I can’t recall her actually being that vague or mysterious in her actual words.)
And the big Foretelling…yes, it’s still as chilling and momentous now as when I first read it, especially since with the series now done we know exactly how true Elaida’s words were. Not just in the things which Rand caused, directly or indirectly, but in what happened to him internally. Pain, division, strife, suffering…she has no idea how much there will indeed be, for Rand, Andor, and the world. *shivers*
It is indeed ironic though that in keeping the last part to herself, so as to be the only one who knew Rand’s true danger and thus put her in a position to save the world from him later, she did indeed save his life. Not to mention forewarn him of what lay in store for him. Although that didn’t really do much for him except add more stress and worry since he couldn’t exactly avoid what was coming. Thanks, Elaida, for beginning Rand’s downward course toward dark oblivion by cluing him in this early to how sucky his life is going to be from here on out. (Which makes for a nice book-end: an Aes Sedai in green starts him down that path, while an Aes Sedai of the Green is the one who helps him set things to right.)
Mac – the Elayne healing thing is even funnier than just the fact that she doesn’t have a healing kit later. As I recall, notwithstanding her earlier interest in and experience with non-magical healing as shown in this chapter, Elayne turns out to have no talent for magical AS healing at all.
Other note: I still want to know how Morgase became acquainted with Three Rivers speech. Grumble, grumble darn you Sanderson and RJ’s Checkov’s Gun that didn’t fire!
@38 macster
When Elaida becomes Amyrlin she still makes her garden bloom, even though there’s a year of endless summer and the drought is affecting every other plant. I think her interests in plants and especially flowers is still shown in other books.
Macster @38: It is possible that Elaida’s green dress is a sign that she is neutral in the current Andorian politics conflict — neither on the Red or White side. The White Tower supports teh Andorian Throne. It does not support a particular monarch.
It is likely I am reading too much into the color of her dress. You and the others are probably have the correct theory. At this point in writing the series, RJ had not fleshed out some of the characteristics of Eladia (including her fondness for wearing dresses with Red in them). My theory is especially doubtful since the white tassel people wanted nothing more to do with the White Tower.
(However, I believe that until she gets captured by the Seanchan, every other scene she is in is in the Tower itself. The Red may have a rule where its members have to where red in their clothes when in the tower. I do not know. I am just rambling.)
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
Yea, it is really funny how early miscellanious skills of many/most of the protagonists only appeared once in TEoTW to never be seen again. Like Nynaeve’s tracking and stealth, Egwene’s skill with a sling (which really should have been useful more than once even in this volume alone – better to throw a stone at a Trolloc than fruitlessly grip a belt knife), Elayne’s first aid/medic skills, etc.
Heck, Mat was the only one who had left TR with a bow and IIRC he didn’t really use it again since Shadar Logoth. BTW, it never made sense that the other 2 boys and even Nynaeve didn’t have bows with them.
After all, the boys were completely unfamiliar with their “iconic” weapons, but were supposedly quite good archers. And it would have hardly made sense for Nyn to master tracking and stalking while hunting with her father, but not have been able to actually take down her quarry.
As to AS disdain re: traditional medicine, it never made the slightest amount of sense. After all, only a half of them or so can Heal and even then they can’t Heal themselves! Which is established early in TEoTW. At the same time, they often travel into dangerous areas and do dangerous things, either alone or with just their warder. First aid and field medicine _should_ have been one of their essential skills.
Ditto weapons training. AS are so often in dangerous situations where using OP is not an option/would only make things worse. Half of them also don’t have warders at any given time.
And channeler concentration technique is enormously helpful to men in physical combat, etc. Sure, upper body stength yadda, yadda, but consider how skillful a woman might become if she remained at physical peak and trained for centuries. Also, she could use OP to unobtrusively enhance her performance in a fight. AS should have been like Shaolin warrior nuns, or something.
But of course, RJ’s desire to model most of his female characters after “southern ladies” got in the way.
Trakands – yea, I really liked them in this chapter. I am still mad about what RJ did with Morgase and her plot-line. So disappointing! And Gawyn :(…
I never disliked Galad, not even here, because he was clearly doing something that was required. I mean, it was nice for his siblings that Rand turned out to be OK, but the circumstances were suspicious. It is also a pity that we haven’t been given any clues re: why Galad had the personality he did.
I have always thought that he (subconsciously?) felt that both of his parents had failed in their duties in worst possible ways and was determined to make up for it.
@@@@@ 42 The boys still kept their bows after leaving the Two Rivers.
Rand used his on The Great Hunt when he was in that mirror world, killing grolms at a distance and impressing both Loyal and Lanfear.
Perrin’s bow was used when defending Emond’s Field from trollocs, and he also used a dream-version of that in Tel’aran’rhiod.
@9 Tessuna: I never thought about it before, but you have a very good point! Lucy was sweet and innocent, and had her cordial, while Elayne is at least naive and has her healing kit; Galad is tall, handsome, noble, does what’s right, and ends up becoming Lord Captain Commander, a very kingly role; and Gawyn’s mistake in allying with Elaida and then struggling to come back to the right side and redeem himself mirrors Edmund and the White Witch (although he was likable right from the start and Edmund only became so after his redemption). And of course they’re all of Andor, the realm of the White Lion (Aslan). Heck, Cair Paravel has things in common with Caemlyn and its palace, Shadar Logoth could be either Harfang or Charn…a lot of stylistic flourishes and details that are reminiscent of Narnia or echo it in some way. So who’s Susan, Tigraine or Morgase? :P
As for Gawyn, the thing about him in the Arthurian mythos is that depending on the story he was either noble, brave, and awesome (like with the Green Knight) or he was temperamental, brash, and impetuous and thus caused heaps of trouble. In one version of the story, he is indirectly responsible for the fall of Camelot: when Guinevere is sentenced to burn at the stake and Arthur deploys his best knights to guard the execution, Gawain nobly refuses to take part in the deed even though his brothers will be there. But when Lancelot returns to rescue Guinevere, a battle between Lancelot’s and Arthur’s knights ensues and Gawain’s brothers, except for Mordred, are killed. This turns his friendship with Lancelot into hatred, and his desire for vengeance causes him to draw Arthur into a war with Lancelot in France. In the king’s absence, Mordred usurps the throne, and the Britons must return to save Britain. Gawain is mortally wounded in battle against Mordred’s armies, and writes to Lancelot apologizing for his actions. It’s also mentioned in the Grail quest that his intentions are always the purest, but he is unable to use God’s grace to see the error in his ways.
@12 chaplainchris: Agree completely on Morgase’s awesomeness here. And I have to say while others don’t agree, I think after she recovered her poise and strength post-Malden, her presiding over Perrin’s trial was equally awesome by doing what was right–it was right that Perrin should pay some debt for what he did, since what happened to the wolves still didn’t justify him killing men; but it was also right that his being a wolfbrother, his surrender and wish to see justice done, and how he was needed for the Last Battle created mitigating circumstances that allowed for a lighter sentence.
Also you’re right: both through the chain of events he set off by going after Demandred and Egwene’s sacrifice that he compelled, Gawyn saved the world too.
@16 RoyanRannedos: Good point.
@19 Sian17: I agree, that’s a very intriguing point regarding how Gawyn and Galad switch roles compared to what their initial appearance would lead us to believe. Very clever, Jordan. As to why Elaida let Rand go: because while her Foretelling warned of bad times coming because of him, it didn’t specifically say he was a channeler let alone the Dragon Reborn. As a Red all she is concerned with is male channelers; while Reds generally don’t like men, if they can’t channel they won’t care about what they might do wrong in the world, seeing that as the province of regular rulers.
@20 alreadymad: She certainly would know what Elaida would do, based on her experiences with her in the Tower as shown in New Spring. (In fact for all we know, the last time they interacted prior to the main series was when Moiraine and Siuan put mice in her bed.)
@24 Bergmaniac: ROTFL! You’re right, I never thought about it but it is very amusing how these people notice so many details about clothing, let alone correctly identify them. That’s the problem with using third person limited–you have to use the POV you’re in to relate details or they never get related, but unless you change POV you’re not guaranteed to be in the head of someone who would notice or identify them. Ah well, an acceptable break from reality I guess, but still funny. As far as Rand goes though, it’s possibly various fabrics did pass through the Two Rivers, at least enough for him to recognize them, and the embroidery is a case of him just being observant and wowed by the finery so he stares at it too long. That could also explain him not noticing Elayne’s beauty–though I think that was Jordan having some fun himself at Rand’s expense.
@27 birgit: Presumably she has the kit for helping her tend to her strays.
@31 JT_Asha’Man: In one of the interviews, Jordan clarified–there was a force of Aes Sedai with Logain when he was brought into Camelyn, and this included their Warders. (A number of them were Green.) But by the time Moiraine arrives, all these other Aes Sedai have left to camp somewhere outside the city, leaving only the Reds to guard Logain.
@34 AndrewHB: This is just speculation, but I imagine that Gitara (being Green) was a lot more trusted and liked in the royal palace, and specifically was probably a lot closer to Tigraine and Mordrellen than Elaida was to Elayne and Morgase. She may even have been a mentor to Tigraine when she was in the Tower. Add in the fact that Gitara was old (and looked it!) and motherly, and that she was one of the Battle Ajah advising the heir to a kingdom known for its valorous queens, and I can see how she could impress upon Tigraine how important this was.
@37 bad_platypus: I assume by retcon you mean the interview I mentioned to JT. It works as far as it goes, but yeah, it’s a bit roundabout and clearly just a way to explain the Warders after Jordan finalized what Reds were like.
@39 RobM: True, but aside from my theory it was included to show Elayne likes helping people and will think outside the Aes Sedai box the same way Nynaeve does, see what I said above to birgit: she has the kit to help with strays. Since there’s never any opportunity after this for her to do that any more, she wouldn’t need it. In fact I can easily see Elaida insisting she leave it behind since she won’t need anything like that once she’s in the Tower. (Even though Elaida had no way of knowing Elayne would suck at Healing, there would be other sisters around her who could do it. And in any event, using healing kits would be beneath Elaida and, as we see, most Aes Sedai, let alone doing so to help lost animals. The only Aes Sedai we see who ever seem to care about animals are Browns and Grays.)
@40 Ryamano: I completely forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder! Glad to know that didn’t disappear entirely. It also makes me a bit sad; there really was more to Elaida, but it all got lost or pushed aside once she started plotting against Moiraine and Siuan. (I mean that not as a criticism of Jordan but of Elaida herself–she became so focused she lost those more humanizing aspects of herself.)
@41 AndrewHB: Good point, I didn’t consider her neutrality in Andor as a possible reason. (Of course we know she isn’t really neutral, since her secret Foretelling is what made her attach herself to Morgase, but she’s not about to admit that openly–not just because of the danger from the factions but because she wants to keep her Foretelling a secret so she can be the one to save the world.)
For what it’s worth, while I do think Jordan probably goofed here, your theory as to why she might wear green here but in no other scene is another one I considered as an explanation. You’re right, every other scene after this with her is in the Tower, and I can guarantee the Reds forbid the wearing of any other color inside the Tower. Which makes me wonder if, if not for loyalty to her Ajah, Elaida wouldn’t wear red if she didn’t have to? Wouldn’t it be a perverse twist if she actually hated red and preferred green? :D
@42 Isilel: While you’re quite right about everyone else’s weapons or lack thereof, I think I should point out that when Nynaeve left the Two Rivers, all she thought she’d be doing would be chasing them down and spiriting the boys and Egwene back home. No need for a bow even to hunt, let alone attack Trollocs. It wasn’t until she met up with them that she found out she’d have no choice but to go along with them to protect her charges, and of course by then it was too late to get a weapon. (Also they had to sneak out of Baerlon in the dead of night, so even if she could have bought a bow there, there wasn’t time.)
Also, very interesting theory about why Galad turned out as he did. Though I always thought the implication was that he picked some of that up from Taringail–either in reaction to the horrible things his father did to try and take over Andor or because Taringail had espoused (but never actually followed) the virtues of nobility and doing right as part of his attempt to woo Morgase/the people of Andor, and Galad simply absorbed them at face value without ever realizing his father’s duplicity (until later, one would hope).
macster @44: Yes, I was referring to exactly that interview. While I take RJ’s word on the vast majority of things, this one I just don’t buy.
@37 It’s been a while since I’ve read this series and I’ve yet to read the books written by Brandon, but I still remember that the queens of Andor have had a relationship with the Aes Sedai being advisors for quite some time. So I think that JT_Asha’Man has it correct when Moiraine names Elaida as Red in the quote that he or she notes.
I found these reads, rereads and read reduxes only recently and am SOOO late to the party but have to share one of my favorite parts of chapter 40 (I haven’t seen mentioned!): our first glimpse of Elayne’s love of cursing!
“Elayne growled an oath, and Rand’s eyebrows shot up. He had heard that from one of the stablemen at The Queen’s Blessing and had been shocked then.”
*hee*
Really appreciating everyone’s comments – validating some of my theories, introducing new ones. Just makes this series even more special THANKS!